The Jason Theory
Jason Stratton of KlopasStratton Team, a top 20 team in the nation with over 1.2 billion sold , sits down with weekly guests to talk about becoming successful, the real estate market, and crazy stories/people we run into. Visit www.klopasstratton.com to see more!
The Jason Theory
Mastering Home Inspections: Jeff Swanberg's Expert Insights into Home Inspection Musts
Home inspections are essential for ensuring peace of mind in the home-buying process. The episode emphasizes the importance of skilled inspectors in helping buyers understand the true condition of a property, addressing common misconceptions, and discussing the unique challenges associated with new constructions versus existing homes.
• Importance of home inspections during the buying process
• Common misconceptions about what inspectors do
• Setting expectations and effective communication with buyers
• Value of thorough inspections for both new and existing homes
• Need for maintenance and care in homeownership
• Importance and implications of pre-sale inspections for sellers
• Advantage of using modern tools and technology in inspections
• Insights on common issues found in older and new construction homes
You're going to take probably 4X time than any inspector who goes in there and is handed a cup of coffee by the developer knows them from five other different projects Because I've been there. When they're like oh, you built this one, I remember you, I don't need like, I've literally been there. Okay, like where? Oh, just give me the permit and signs and leaves. Really, oh yeah, oh, that's disappointing, but you have to have somebody the city's, not on your behalf, you are Right.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and so here's where the inspector really helps that buyer, because this is your one chance to get it right or as close to perfect as possible with someone that is skilled in how construction should be done.
Speaker 1:What's the five P's? Do you remember it?
Speaker 2:Proper preparation prevents poor performance.
Speaker 1:There you go. It doesn't matter how much money we get, if we don't close it's no money right? So no, close is no money. I'm everything that I am because of my dad's death, and I wouldn't be as successful without his death. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Jason Theory season three, episode 13,. Probably the last episode we're going to. It's December, the last episode we'll have, and then we'll have the year in review first week in January. So we're going to talk about home inspections, because this is one of. Let's say to me you have your attorney review, you have your home inspection and you have your financing. All three are critical. One doesn't work without the other. So let's get right into it, jeff, tell us your full name, company name, how long you've been doing it, and so let's get right into it, jeff, tell us your full name, company name, how long you've been doing it, and then let's get right into it. Sounds great.
Speaker 2:Jason, well, thank you first off for allowing me to participate in your podcast here, and my name is Jeff Swanberg. I've been doing home inspections. My licensing was from 2005,. So past 20 years, coming up on the 20-year anniversary and I am an independent home inspector with my own company, premier Home Inspections Chicago.
Speaker 2:Like I said, I've been doing home inspections for the past 20 years and have approximately 7,000 under my belt. You know, that's a lot. It is a lot, um, uh. Do you know, in the early years when the building boom was taking place, we were doing I was doing 400 a year, uh, and obviously in the old way it fell back a little bit, but we're still doing 325 to 350, um, for almost 10 years with a local company here, just so that I could build my business, my book of business and understand the business itself.
Speaker 2:And then worked as a manager overseeing a team of seven for a national company, a company that was based out of the East Coast, that was trying to build and become a national company. So so, managing a team as well as carrying a book, you know, a bag myself, yeah, so, uh, and then decided, uh, that in 2021, uh, that it was time to just do this on my own, like I thought I should, and just had a few people, such as yourself, as well as some other really great people in the Chicago area, that said Jeff, do this yourself, I can. One of the quotes was I can read any inspection report. The reason that we hire you is not because of the inspection report. It's because of you and the way in which you handle the clients. Even if the quote was you know they can ask the same silly question and you still handle it with grace and you still handle it kindly.
Speaker 1:So that's why that's an art form in itself.
Speaker 2:It is yeah, particularly.
Speaker 1:That's a virtue actually, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:There have been times where I've I've wanted to say, but never did, that perhaps renting would still be better for you than buying, when someone doesn't understand some of the very basics of homeownership. But and so, yeah, in 2021, I launched my own company, premier Home Inspection Chicago. I have been very happy and you know, um, and you know, you know, I uh, at least the other employees when I um, when I asked them if, uh, uh, you know how, how is the inspector doing? Well, I asked them every morning when I look in the mirror to shave or brush my teeth. You know cause it's me, I'm the janitor, I'm the home inspector, I'm the booker, I'm everything like that.
Speaker 2:But, uh, it's been great and, uh, uh, you know, get to work with a lot of great people. One of the things that's really great about home inspection is that I get to meet people from all walks of life. You know, and you know some doctors, some, you know, brewers, you know everybody, consultants, you know every kind of discipline in there. So I get to learn a little bit about them and understand what they're looking for. But that's what I've been doing for the past 20 years as a home inspector and continue, just, you know, re-upped my licensing for the next two years, so we're on a two-year cycle for continuing education, for continuing education, um, and so, yeah, that's, uh, that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Before we get into this email you sent me, which is fantastic because it kind of keeps me focused I just want and this is totally random but like, don't, don't you think, like, and this may be my thing, but I think you know, having done real estate the same amount of time as you've been inspections and talking about how you meet all these people, I think that's the the best part of the job, and whenever I meet somebody that's a jerk, I, because I've met so many people, I realized that it's only a select few people that are jerks and actual totality of humanity is not bad.
Speaker 2:You're correct. I don't know why. They just popped in my head. I'm like no, no, and people are great. People are super interesting. It's a great part of this job.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, absolutely, you're going to have one-offs, but like everyone that's really negative about things, I'm like you just haven't met enough people, right?
Speaker 2:Exactly, people are actually very nice. Oh, exactly, people are actually very nice. Oh, people are great. You know, I've always said in in the the years that I've I've been doing this as well, as you know, other other uh careers um, is that one percent to maybe two at the most, of the people in this, in this humanity, are just pains in the asses yeah, you just eradicate yourself and they're never going to be happy, no matter what you know. And so you just you know, you just understand that, and but you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1:So when you do fight, when you do fight, when you do like I'll jump ahead. So when you do have that person that you just like people that are not going to be happy, they're so easy to all right, this person's just enjoys being miserable. Yeah, how do you go about like, do you like, when I have somebody that's miserable, that's looking at a house, I kind of just back off and I'm like, okay, this person's miserable, they want to be miserable, I'm not really going to engage. Do you just go ahead and do okay, I'm going to do X, y and Z. This person, no matter what I say, is going to be like. How do you handle that negativity and still be positive during the experience? That's my toughest thing to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and that is you know. But that's where you really have to look inside yourself and you know it's really. You know, when you do a home inspection, you always start with what they call the driveway speech. Or you know, if you're not in, you don't have a driveway. It's at the front door, the kitchen speech, as I always call it and you just set the expectations.
Speaker 2:So what I have found over the years and being in sales and being a home inspector if you set the expectations and you tell the person, the potential home buyer, what you're doing, they have a much better understanding and so you are driving basically the inspection because you know that's what I need to do.
Speaker 2:I'm doing my job for them and you know any inspector worth their salt in being able to inspect should be able to find as many defects as they want.
Speaker 2:The whole idea of an inspection and I even state this in my driveway speech is that the purpose of the inspection is to have a better understanding for you, the buyer, as to what the condition of the home is, so that you can make a decision on how you best want to move forward. Do you want to do nothing and take it as is? Do you want to walk away or somewhere in between and have a meeting of the minds with the information that you have? So what an inspection really is is having a better understanding of what the condition of the house is. It's amazing light conversation with the buyer of saying that you know this is going to be the long while we're at the inspection. This is going to be the longest period of time that you're going to be in the home. So get to know your home. You know, don't be afraid to be a snoopy snoop and you know, take measurements and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great thing that you say to people at the inspection, because you are a percent right the showing is 20 or 30 minutes.
Speaker 2:This is four hours where you can literally sit down yeah, have a much better understanding you know, I mean, there's been this has been numerous times over the years where someone has said oh, when did they put this bathroom in? You know, it's always been there, but you know. But there's a lot of things that are going on and it's a highly charged, you know transaction to you know a place. A person is spending a hundred thousand plus dollars and they spend 10 minutes walking through and says I'll take this one, yeah, you know, whereas we do more research.
Speaker 1:a TV that's $400. Months, yeah, a microwave, you know a?
Speaker 2:$450 microwave. Let's check consumer reports, let's see what Best Buy said, see what Google reviews are, you know, and so it's just kind of crazy. So I guess I'm kind of the good one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's one of those things and they always joke around and you know, one of the things, um, to get back to kind of your original question is if there's someone that's going to be difficult, they're, they're going to, they're going to tell you right at that driveway speech and much like you do, you let them talk, you know. You let them, let them feel like that they have a say, you know, instead of being confrontational with them and you can just have a discussion with them, and that has always proved it also, kind of like, when they're speaking, it also lets you know hey, listen, these are the things that they want me to look out for.
Speaker 1:I'll pay extra attention. Hey, bring this to your attention, or bring this to your attention too.
Speaker 2:Well, we've all had experiences in our lives. You know, and you know the old saying of you don't know someone else's experience until you've walked their life or in their moccasins. But you know, there's been many times where someone will say to me up front because one of the things is, is there anything that you're really concerned about or any changes that you were thinking about making to the home? And a lot of times they've had a past experience that was negative in some way, whether it was a backed up. You know flooding, all the major things, flooding, roof leaks, things of that nature and so they will share with you so you have a better understanding of where they're coming from. You know whether it's from a rental or a previous home or different parts of the country or the things that they've had struggles with. So those are things that, by just letting them tell you, you know you can have a better understanding where they're coming from.
Speaker 1:So so when you, when you do have your kitchen sink, front of the door sink, front of the door conversation, you're letting people know hey, this is what an inspection is. So for someone that's hasn't gone through the experience, what exactly is home inspection? You, you, you kind of hit on it, but let's go over from you know, the rooter to the tutor, from top to bound, sure.
Speaker 2:And so one of the misnomers that a lot of people have. And early on in my career in 2005, there was a television program it's probably still on HGTV. It was Homes on Homes. Mike Holmes and I always get someone that comes in while we're doing these things. I want you to do like a Mike Holmes inspection, and I would always kid with them. I said I would love to, except I don't have this construction crew behind me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, rip out all the walls, rip all the drywall up, bring it to the bones and let's start. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so we would always kid about that and go oh okay, I understand, but what a home inspection is in the state of Illinois? It's a visual-only inspection and not technically exhaustive. So go into that, yeah. So what that means is basically we are not doing anything invasive, you know. We're not opening up the walls, we're not taking off cover plates for outlets and checking all the wiring. We're it's really visual only and only using normal operating controls. So you know, I've had people say, well, yeah, this door works fine, you just have to lift it and then turn the knob. Well, no, that's not how a door should operate. It should be able just to turn it and open it. So the other thing that you know home inspection is there's limitations to it in the sense that the state of Illinois requires you to be licensed in order to perform a home inspection or provide any kind of reporting for.
Speaker 1:Are there different levels of licensing?
Speaker 2:No, no, no, there are different levels of licensing. If you get further certifications, like if you're a professional engineer or something like that, there's things that you can bring to the home inspection world. Okay yeah, but home inspection itself is just a very straight licensing. You have to take courses, you have to pass the test, the course test, and then you have to actually pass the state licensing test. And then you have to, much like most licensed professions, they have to do continuing education, so many hours and re-up those every year or every year, I'm sure yours is more difficult than mine?
Speaker 1:Probably not, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean it's just you know it's it's, you know, it's English harder than math, you know it depends, you know it depends on the side.
Speaker 2:I mean in ours and ours do intersect. You know much like math and English intersect, but anyway. And so you know much like math and english intersect, but anyway, um, and so you know, the thing about an inspection is that, and as we've learned in school, um, is that there's theory and there's actual doing it. You know, and seeing it in action, and so, uh, most inspectors will pass um, unless they just haven't if you haven't put the work in it's like when we were in school.
Speaker 2:If you did studying and you did, you're going to pass, but if you don't weed you out, it means that you're not fully invested, one of the challenges that a lot of inspectors. There's two ways to think about home inspection too. There's there's persons that are not. That's not their full-time job and then there's persons that that's their fully committed job, and that's what I've been since 2005. That's my only career.
Speaker 2:I'm not doing, I'm not a firefighter let's say, you're not a fireman, I'm not a fireman that does it on the side, or I'm not a contractor, you know, whether it's carpenter or electrician or whatever that does it on the side. And, um, I just don't think that that's really the best, best way to approach home inspection man I had.
Speaker 1:There's one guy who's a contractor on the north shore I'm sure you know him. He's like a bigger, bigger guy and he does inspections and the minutiae he gets wrapped up in because he's a framer or he's a contractor, it's's just like it's like man.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I would build the house like this. I mean, there's different ways to build a home. Right, I'm glad that you would do it this way, but that doesn't mean that there's other things that are wrong, right, right, and you know.
Speaker 2:Going back to the Mike Holmes thing, there was times where you know they would do the follow-up and Mike would go through the home and he goes yeah, they did this here. It's not to my liking, but it's done right, or yeah, I would have maybe changed this around, so he was being an interior decorator.
Speaker 1:But yeah, there's different ways to approach an inspection. Yeah, the opinion stuff about the deck, like that, stuff's like okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it is what it is. And the thing about an inspection my job is to point out defects. There is an art to it, in a sense that if something was built in 1950 or 1960 or 1970 and they haven't updated it, that it doesn't meet today's current standards, they don't have to bring it up to the today's current standards. You know, as long as it was done in the manner in which it was done and correct.
Speaker 1:So I know that. So I know that you say that, right, I use you as an inspector, but then I'm also at a ton of different inspections when I'm on the sell side. I don't understand why what you said is so hard for people to say and no one says it, well, until I say it, yeah, yeah, and then. And then, like I never want to interject, right, because I think that's the worst thing is when the selling agent interjects in the inspection. But sometimes it's like so blatantly, like I'm like I get so frustrated. I'm like, hey, yeah, this staircase is from 1880, they don't have to tear it down. No, and rebuild it it.
Speaker 2:But they don't say that Right.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, one of the things you know there's. There's a couple of things about the home inspection schooling is that and is that the home inspectors? There were a few schools and home inspectors in in Chicago, the Chicagoland area, that were known as deal killers and they prided themselves on being the buyer's advocate. And I am going to make sure that you are protected. And because they would paint all realtors with a broad brush saying that they're only just interested in selling you a house and they don't care about you, which is not true If you take a look at how the whole process and transactions take place and the sales cycles. It may have been true back before licensing ever came into being.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, and there's always going to be bad seeds, it's just, and every like I, yeah, I mean that that stuff happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean when my parents bought their house back in the 1960s and all the way up until nine in the nineties there was no. There was no home inspection Licensing wasn't a thing. There was no such thing. It only became into into play back in the 90s, 1990s that was so would you just bring contractors?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you would have your Take a hammer and kind of ding face.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, you would have your friend. Oh, I have a friend that's a carpenter, that knows buildings, so here kind of, look at the house and see what you think. But no one really did the whole what is now a full profession of understanding. You know, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna take things and all the different systems and components, meaning whether it's your electrical, your structure, your plumbing, you know, your, your roofing, uh, you know all all the things that appliances, uh, walls, um, foundations, crawl spaces, um, that has actually been put into place so that there is some standard that is met.
Speaker 1:And it helps many different areas.
Speaker 2:Such. It helps government, meaning the city, so that there's at least a level or a baseline to work off of how buildings should be built so they don't fall down, you know, or that there's fire. It helps everybody. Insurance, right, it helps insurance. It helps the buyer understand, you know, a good house versus a bad house. So that's really the role of an inspector. And having hired, you know, inspectors, one of the paths for inspectors is usually retired or guys that no longer can physically be a carpenter or a plumber or an electrician.
Speaker 1:It seems like a good transition.
Speaker 2:It's a great transition. The challenge, much like you were talking about before, is that they know they know too much. Well, no, not so much. They know electric really, really deep, going down all the way to. Well, this connection they should have used a J hook instead of the U hook in here. But they'll miss the mold or they'll miss the P trap that wasn't in place.
Speaker 2:You know, and and not not saying that that's wrong, but having a better understanding of all disciplines, not to the depth that a licensed plumber would need, or you know, an inspector doesn't need to know that deep of stuff. What he does need to know is if it doesn't look right. All an inspector needs to do in their reporting is identify what the issue is, why it is an issue and what is the next course of action. So, simply, the sink is missing a P-trap. A P-trap helps prevent sewer gases from entering into the home. Call or have evaluated by a licensed plumber and correct as needed.
Speaker 2:Simple, that's all it is. So that's how you have to write an inspection item and you have to do that for electric. You have to do that, like I said, for all the different disciplines, and so there is a lot of skill in doing an inspection and new inspectors. A lot of times from the first company that I worked with had said you really don't know anything until you've done at least 250, 300 inspections. So that's almost a full year. I could see that yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, you can see it, you can read about it, but if you haven't seen it in action, one of the things that you will always find, as you and I have discovered, is that there will be kind of a consistent number of things over the years. You know there's not a GFCI in a wet location that is required, you know there's. You know a broken thermal seal, you know in a window, things like that. You know that are just going to always be the same. You know that's going to be in every single home. So those are some of the things. But yeah, so you know to be a home inspector it does take skill and it's also understanding how to deliver the information.
Speaker 2:One of the things that they teach in the home inspection world or schools is that you are the buyer's advocate, like I was talking about a little bit before, and you are the last defense wall for making a horrible mistake in your life. You know and those were the deal killers in there my approach has always been that, again, we're just trying to understand what the condition of the property is, so you know how to best move forward, because everything can be fixed. It's just time and money and whether or not. This person is in a position to be able to address that, and that's what the attorney and that's what the realtor has the job of to do for their buyer or their client.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's basically hey, this is. You know, I think if you don't have a good team after you, it really gets difficult, right? Because if you buy something that's $150,000 on the market and it's $50,000 worth of work, if you can handle that work, it's worth it and on top of it you're going to make money because you're adding value to the house. So I think that's the biggest issue I see is once that report comes in. Actually, no, the biggest issue I see is once the report comes in, it goes straight to the attorney and the agent goes like this those are the worst agents. Yeah, because your job is to assess what you saw and say At the time of inspection, because things can change and be like is this still worth this, is it still worth this?
Speaker 1:What's the best course of action? This, this and this? Because you're going to lay out, as you say at the end of inspections I'm just giving you everything, right. Yeah, like nothing's perfect, or like you say, I mean you wouldn't have jobs.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly, there is no perfect house. There's no perfect house.
Speaker 1:I'm going to lay out everything. Now let's really assess the situation that we have in front of us and, like you said, what's the best course of action. You know, what do we need to do and is it worth staying or is it worth leaving? That's all stuff that, because nothing's like nothing's like nothing's perfect and no one's ever satisfied. A 10 million dollar house is amazing to a five million dollar person, but it's terrible to a 20 million dollar house. Yeah, so everything is relative and take those relative things and let's figure out what is it worth, what we need to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's more on your side yeah, I mean yeah, I'm just reporting the details.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but if if, like, what people don't understand, if it's not communicated properly by the inspector, then it's really tough to move to the next stage, right? So you know, if someone goes downstairs and says the house is going to fall apart, it's really tough for me to say, hey, it's not going to fall apart. When I know it's not going to fall apart, yeah Right, I know it's not going to fall apart. Yeah Right, like, and there's people that just make these, you know, cya exaggerations. What I appreciate about Jeff and what, what, what you do is in terms of what I think should be done, and I don't think people. I don't understand I was actually thinking about this a couple of days ago why do people not give their expert opinion? Like, I know we're a litigious society, but we're all experts in what we do. And and people can say, like you said, you know, this is this on a 1880 home, or this is this hey, this is something that you are going to see in a house of this age. This is this is not, you know, against the norm. This is not, you know it norm. If it's a 2023 bill, then you're seeing this. This is an issue. But this isn't an issue because this is how it was done. This was how things were done properly back then. We can make some fixes or it's still going to be here.
Speaker 1:I just think that in all business, and not just in ours, but I do see it, I see it incredible in mine, like I have people that come into homes that are priced extremely attractive for the reasons that the floor needs to be done, like refinish, or this needs to be done, this needs to be done, and the client will be bitching about all this stuff. I, as an agent, would be like, yeah, I get that. Like if they were my buyers, like I totally get that, guys, but you know, this place is selling at a $100,000 discount from the place that sold across the street and we need to do $15,000 worth of stuff. You're not going to get a 1.5 priced at one three. That should be one five. That doesn't happen, right, well and that's, and those opinions are just not given anymore. I don't know if I don't know why. Well, well, part of it is is because, more than the agent scope, I do see it in inspectors too.
Speaker 1:but it's like, why don't people want to? I mean, and what you do? And there's no one that knows more than I or what we do. Give your opinion. That's why you're being hired.
Speaker 2:Right, right, well, and that's the thing is. The thing that they teach in an inspection school, particularly for new inspectors, is these are the current standards, so they don't familiarize them with old standards. So that's where a new inspector will go. Oh well, this doesn't meet today, today's standard, even though it's an 1880 house, and you know that.
Speaker 1:And then I'm like it doesn't have to, it doesn't have to.
Speaker 2:They've never changed it yeah, and one of the things that they teach in the you know, like I was saying, is that, um, you know, inspectors are the last, the last defensive wall, you know from a buyer making a turbulent thing. But if you actually look at the empirical data that has having been in a corporate world, where I got to see it from in a managerial standpoint, I got to see it from a much more global perspective is that less than 2% of transactions home transactions actually walk away because of an inspection issue. Wow, that's interesting yeah.
Speaker 2:But I totally see that 1.75%, most of the reasons why people walk away. There may be some aspect aspect, but uh, you know so a failing foundation or a boeing foundation wall or a house that's sinking and racked. You know which I I have seen and have said to people you know, you know this is, you know, significant. You know structural issues. Um, you know where I could actually stick my hand underneath, where the earth was, was, you know, eroded away. Where I could stick my hand underneath where the earth was, you know, eroded away, where I could stick my hand underneath the footing of a foundation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they walked away from that. But most of the reasons why people walk away from a transaction, from seeing data, has to do on your side of the business Contingencies, earnest money, financing, being able to get a mortgage, all those types of things, or they couldn't sell their house, you know so. There's so many different aspects, but for the most part, again, everything can be fixed. It's just you know how much money, how much time, and is that something that you're willing to do?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think your demeanor on that is what is also reassuring, right, because people's nonverbal and their demeanor on certain issues can set people one way or the other. Yeah, you know, or I was at a place last week where this person started freaking out and the inspector was like, hey, listen, it can all be fixed. And she's like, well, how can you fix blah, blah, blah? Well, it just so happened that I had just been part of what needed to be fixed and I was like, well, this is what we're going to do. We're going to cut a hole in the top of this, we're going to drop this here and we're going to do this here.
Speaker 2:And then she's like, oh, and the inspector goes that's exactly how you would do it, and I'm like Inspectors will have people to come back, because one of the things that does happen is our role again is to identify what the issue is, why it's an issue and what the next course of action is. If you expand upon that and give your personal opinion, then what will happen is they'll call a plumber and and the plumber will say, well, they didn't do this, they didn't do this. They didn't do it because they know, you know the whole system, they know they're the plumbing, you know, discipline this deep. And they say, well, your inspector should have caught this, your inspector should have caught this, your inspector should have caught this, you know Well. Well, yeah, if I'm only looking at plumbing, I would have you know and I was able to tear it apart. But again it's, it's a visual only inspection. I'm not allowed to tear a pipe out and see that it's rusted or get underneath there.
Speaker 2:You know, we just know that that pipe needs to be addressed we know, you know, I can see that there's, there's clues or evidence that, yeah, it is and if it, if that's occurring, there may be something else.
Speaker 1:that's yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's down the line, yeah, that I just can't see, yeah, and so they're always going to throw the inspector under the bus, you know. But and again, you know, it's a visual inspection. We're not, we're not tearing it apart. You know, now, even though it is a visual only inspection, there are ways, and through skill and doing it enough times, that you're going to see the same kind of themes. That happens, you know, and the plumbers know that too. You know, they know that, yeah, this is going to happen over time, but for right now, you know the, the, the metal pipe that's under the P-trap and the drain system, the DWV system, is going to, you know, work for 50 years. You know one of the things that I just actually had to deal with yesterday and you know this is kind of a really great example of understanding and being a homeowner myself, of why this is an important issue and for somebody to understand what the current condition is and what would transpire during their time of homeownership home ownership.
Speaker 2:We're going through a number of buildings because all the way up until the basically the early seventies, late sixties, they still use galvanized piping for water supply, which is steel pipe, and we know that steel pipe will rust. You know steel rust if it's in water. Yeah, and you're going to remember that water is always sitting in a water water line. So, and where the weak part of the pipe is is where you cut the threads to connect the sections together. So you've taken material away and so we would always see, you know, we see that kind of corrosion. Well, one of the things that I've learned over my career and talking with the homebuyers and when I have pointed it out, is that you know, galvanized pipe, particularly on the hot side or the horizontals, it will corrode and it will basically be like a shrinking artery and so you have weak water pressure on the hot side, or you know no water pressure at all, particularly the higher you go up. So there's a tell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's a tell yeah.
Speaker 2:And so when you see the water supply and you see the distribution being galvanized, you have to tell the customer. And the reason being is that some insurance companies will not insure galvanized piping because they don't want to take the risk, particularly if the house is over 50 years old.
Speaker 2:So you know, if you have a house that's 100 years old that has galvanized piping and no one has done, anything yeah it's okay, but you want to let your buyer know that, yeah, um, you have got galvanized piping and it's going to fail, it's at its life expectancy, and that that you know, and now, or if the insurance company may not.
Speaker 2:You know, if they do insure you, they're going to raise their rates. Yeah, you know, because they're knowing that it's coming, knowing that it's coming and knowing that it's coming. So, and that also has to deal with other other systems and components, such as air conditioning. You know, back in 2010, the, they opted to use a different refrigerant instead of the R22. Well, you can still kind of find it, you know, if you need to. Yeah, it's expensive, you know. So. You know they switched to a 410A and so you know you may have an air conditioning unit that works. You know, based on that, it's 14 years old. But if you need to have it serviced because the line, you know, has leaked, it's going to cost you a lot and it may be better off to expect replacement. You know has leaked, it's going to cost you a lot. It may be better off to expect replacement, you know. So budget for that too.
Speaker 2:So that's some of the things that inspectors will also. You know, a good inspector will tell you, whereas new inspectors are only say, oh, it's, it's R22, it's old, you know, or yeah, what do you do next? Well, you know, have it evaluated by an HVAC company. Okay, well, that's great, but you know what happens if it's winter. They're not going to the time. You know, and you know this.
Speaker 2:You know the attorney review period of getting your inspection and all the other stuff is five days. Yeah, you know, you may not be able to get an HVAC guy out there in five days to look at your air conditioning, let alone be able to run it in the wintertime when it's below 65 degrees. So having that depth of knowledge of knowing looking out for the customer, not only for today but also when it gets time for sale, so one you know. One of the things that you know you and I have talked about is that you know there's starter homes and or condos. You know and you know if there's something that isn't right, that's okay right now for them and that was a defect. I'm just letting them know that at some point they're going to sell and if they do get it, the new buyer is going to get it get to sell and if they do get it, the new buyer is going to get it get it inspected.
Speaker 1:This is going to be an issue that's going to come, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not going away. It's not going away. So you know, pick and choose as to what you want to fix.
Speaker 1:That was a conversation I had with someone today. They were like we were talking about before we started, about new construction or old, which we can get into next. And he's like you know, I'm like you know. I said it's all about price. I said you know, everything has a price. I said some construction is better than others. It doesn't mean that that construction is wrong, it just means that it's a little less in terms of the quality of the material. So the price is going to change. And he said well, what's that mean? I said the engine on a $250,000 Ferrari is different than the engine on a Kia. They're both good engines, they're going to get you where you're going to go and they're both working totally fine. One is just better than the other. There's no difference.
Speaker 1:I said we were talking about masonry versus. I said listen, a full masonry house is the best. Does a frame house that has siding? Is that not going to work? No, it's still good.
Speaker 1:I go. It's just different and there are different costs. And I said and where you want to live and your budget is what is going to determine all the specifications that go into your home? And I said because a hundred thousand dollar home costs more than a fifty thousand dollar home and it's going to cost you more. And I said that's, that's only a different.
Speaker 1:I go now, listen, I said is there garbage? Yeah, I said, but just because it's not built by hand like a rolls doesn't mean that it's bad, Correct. And I go and you just have to understand that aspect, and I think that's part of what a good agent should be telling the buyer before they even get to you. Hey, listen, this is different, this is different. This is different. Nothing wrong with it. Now, if it's done right, is what we're going to get into? Because, just like you said in the beginning, you're just going to say these are the issues and these are the deficiencies. Does the price dictate that you're going to have some issues here and there, or should the price dictate that it's mint? Like if you go to buy a $250,000ari and you've got a key engine, that's a problem well, that's a problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know, you hit on a couple, a couple of points there that I think are really important for people to understand. Uh, and we'll first talk about um, systems and components in a house, one of the things that people don't. Systems and components in a house, one of the things that people don't really understand as far as a home, and I think it just has to do with because we usually come from a renting standpoint first. You know, when we're right out of college, we're renting.
Speaker 1:We're not usually buying something, so you know, ah, it's, it's someone else's problem, it's my, my landlord, my landlord is terrible, even though your parents should be saying this is the furnace, this is the, because you did grow up in a house, right, exactly should know how it works, right, exactly, and so, just like you wouldn't run your car for 20,000 miles without changing the oil at least once, or maybe twice, you know.
Speaker 2:So maintenance, and that's one of the things that I always explain to people too. I said you know. One of the things about you know understanding what an inspection is too, is that it gives you clues as to whether things have been maintained or not. You know the difference between, and you tell them how to maintain it too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, give them the basics. You know of it. The difference between small money and big money, small problems and big problems is maintenance. So if you have some caulking, you know, which lasts about seven years on average, if it has deteriorated because it's facing the sun and there's a big gap on there, you may have water coming in. Now, caulking is $7 a tube. You can hire a qualified handyman to install it for $50. You've re-caulked it. I love how you said qualified.
Speaker 2:No, I know it was great though yeah, I mean Uncle Joe may be, I don't know, is he qualified, I don't know but by sealing up that gap you have maybe just saved yourself thousands of dollars, because if water keeps on driving in through there, you're going to get water in and you're not going to know it until it comes to the inside. So by the time it comes to the inside, whether it's your flashing on your roof or wherever it may be, it has gone through the exterior siding, it's gone through the vapor barrier, it's gone through the structure wall, it's gone through the insulation and now it's coming through the drywall issue, where a $7 regular maintenance, or you know, I've had people say the furnace, oh, I changed. Yeah, I know I need to change my filter, I change it once a year and I just, I just gently, just swallow and just say, well, that's great that you do change it, but it needs to be changed more frequently, you know. And then we go through that whole maintenance scenario of what needs to be changed and how often and the type of filter to use, particularly for the system that they have in there. So not everybody understands that.
Speaker 2:You know that there's maintenance to any house. You know that there's maintenance to any house, and so where that relates back to you know, what you were talking about is the quality, is that everything doesn't have to be the Taj Mahal and it needs to be a $4 million home. You know and that's where you're trying to help and understand your client's needs of you know, budget, school districts, all the other kinds of taxes, all the things that go into actually owning a home. But you know, one of the things that a lot of people will say in our driveway or our kitchen speech is I want you to check all the codes and I want to make sure that it lives up to the codes.
Speaker 1:And I say I can understand that.
Speaker 2:First off, we're not code inspectors. Secondly, you never want your house built only to code. Okay, expand on that and people are like well, what do you mean? I said do you understand what code is? Code in any municipality is the bare minimum, the basic standard that the builder has to meet so that we're on a level playing field. I want my house built.
Speaker 1:Better than code. Better than code, especially with soundproofing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, whether it's soundproofing or-.
Speaker 1:The code on soundproofing is basically you can hear people piss Okay Literally. Yeah, because we had a development once and people were like we can hear everyone saying and he's like I built it to code, here you go, yeah. And I's like I built it to code, here you go, yeah. And I was like Victor, this is unbearable. He's like this is code, yeah, yeah, so you don't yeah. I agree with you 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the other thing that an inspector will be able to do for you is understand what a lot of those codes are. So there's a couple that I can think of just that I've had of recent where that has actually changed the National Electrical Code. Whereas it used to be that up until 2007, islands didn't need to have an outlet or needed to be GFCI. Well, in the city of Chicago they made it really simple Every outlet in a kitchen, doesn't matter how far away from water, needs to be a GFCI protected outlet. It doesn't matter how far away from water, it needs to be a GFCI-protected outlet. In the 2024 National Electrical Code they now say that you don't even need an outlet on an island, and when I say islanded, it's a permanent island, not a movable one.
Speaker 1:So you don't need islands.
Speaker 2:You don't need it now and it doesn't need to be GFCI'd. Oh yeah, much like that. The you you know, and that has to do with how industries kind of move and, uh, you know the other.
Speaker 1:But it's a great idea because the reason they did it was because the wires from the kitchen people hitting them. Blenders like it. It makes sense it makes sense.
Speaker 2:You know, in islands a lot of times there'll be a slop sink or yeah prep sink in there, and, and so yeah.
Speaker 2:That's interesting, I would love to know the reasoning. They change them all the time, like, for example, you know, about eight years ago you were not allowed to take the dishwasher drain line and put it into the disposal. You know that was right there. Well, two years ago they changed that. They changed it back to that. Yeah, now you can do it again, you know. So it just it's, it's the ebb and flow of of what the national electrical code okay, like that is. So, um, and so you know, we see those types of things that that will take place.
Speaker 2:I, I had an instance where there was a development where, uh, a developer it was in like Albany Park there bought a number of homes, tore them down and built new homes and this was one of the last on the section here and they were using four by four supports for the decking for the entrance there and there were a couple other issues. And they said, well, you know, well, the city came by and passed it and I said, okay, that's great, but which you know? Can I see the paperwork for it? Oh, we have it. So I just wrote in the report. You know, supposedly this meets. Currently it does not meet standards because the deck is higher than six feet and doesn't have cross bracing. When you use a four by four, you need to have cross bracing. If it was a six by six post, you know, support post then you wouldn't need it because you don't want to have sway.
Speaker 2:And so I heard back from the agent that those things, that there was also a plumbing issue too. He said, oh well, we had, we had a plug, you know, we, we passed our plumbing inspection. Well, there's different levels of plumbing inspections. There's the drainage, there's the waste, there's the supply, there's all those different things. And when did it come through? Come to find out, is that? And this is where the attorney came into play, because I had alerted that, you know, I had alerted that these things were of issue.
Speaker 2:So they dug a little deeper and they asked for the permits and they couldn't produce the permits and the sign off from the city. And then they did and it was a sign. It was just on the back of a sheet of paper that was, you know, scribbled. So you know it wasn't on the permit. It wasn't on the back of a sheet of paper that was, you know, scribbled. So you know it wasn't on the permit. It wasn't on the permit. Yeah, yeah, so you know those are the types of things that inspectors will will catch. But you know, in helping the buyer understand what the condition of their homes are, so what have you?
Speaker 1:what have you over 20 years? What have you seen? What are three like major differences between buyers that you've seen in terms of what their main, not issues, but like what their main objective when they're there. Like and that's the wrong word too Like what? What are the three main things that people kind of bring up all the time in terms of like, hey, check this or check this or check this, has it changed? Is like, is. Were buyers 15 years ago being like and this is just me saying anything 15 years ago like, hey, man, I really want to make sure that this roof is the way it should be. And is that turned to? Hey, you know, can you double check on the water heater? And has that turned to? Hey, you know, can you double check on the water heater? Like, have people like what people focus in on an inspection? Has that changed over the years for you?
Speaker 2:And have you noticed, like any of the what?
Speaker 2:those changes are yeah, things have changed, and I think part of that has to do with people's better understanding and information. More information of being able to you know, gts it, google, that stuff anytime you know and at least have a better understanding of how a system or a component may work, whether it's the furnace or the roofing and stuff like that. But again, it also goes back to if someone has had a previous experience, a bad experience like leaking or something along that line, so like first-time homebuyers.
Speaker 2:So first-time homebuyers are always nervous about everything, but they are most concerned about and as anyone should really be, about the envelope Meaning. Is it weather tight? Are you going to get water in from somewhere outside?
Speaker 1:So water is always.
Speaker 2:Water is always the number one, the biggest issue, whether it's from the roof, whether it's from you know, which you know, back in the from the 90s all the way to 2010 ish, with split face block, you know, and the lack of flashing, and you know the challenges that builders had at that time and the demand for housing, as well as the the lack of skilled labor. Um, and not, you know one of the things you know, just speaking of concrete blocks, where they face concrete block is, you know, they put, do put a sealant on it, um, and the sealant is about a one-year sealant.
Speaker 1:You know it's a very thin that's the, that's the manufacturer's sealant, that's the manufacturer's sealant.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the manufacturer's sealant, just for shipping and distribution and stuff like that and to prevent product loss. But when the builder would build it which was perfectly fine they never shared that with and we would see it in a duplex down, duplex up and a second level. They never shared it with the buyers. And so you know, hopefully the inspector would say something like hey, these typically have a one-year sealant from the factory, but it is going to require sealant.
Speaker 2:A lot of inspectors don't do that or didn't do that, and so we know what the problem with split-face concrete block was. It also had to do with flashing. You know that they weren't flashing it on the top, preventing the water from coming in between the ports there. So those are. You know, those are always the things that we will find, that things have changed and so they have done a much better job of flashing, much better, of keeping the envelope tight.
Speaker 2:You know, some of the things just from natural product improvements is you know it used to be acceptable to use a three-tab roofing shingle. You know, and that's the ones that look perfectly smooth. You know, and it's three shingles this way and you just let them there. Well, they're no longer allowed to be used and you can't even do them anymore. Yeah, no, the manufacturers really don't. Even you can use them on on certain certain circumstances, like, um, like a shed or okay, more, maybe a garage, but it's architectural style shingles now.
Speaker 2:Now, the difference between the two different products is that a um, a three tap is a 15 to 20-year life expectancy, depending upon exposure and wear and tear and elements, whereas an architectural style shingle is going to be a 25 to 30-year life expectancy roof. So it's a much better product does cost a little bit more, but most of the things, whether it's the concrete block does cost a little bit more, but most of the things, whether it's the concrete block when you have it sealed or it's a roofing, the cost is not in the material. The added cost is not really in the material, it's the labor. It's always the labor, it's the labor. So if you're going to have a block that's sealed concrete block, wall sealed it's always best to try to get as long as as much as your budget can afford to go for the longest period of sealant than a shorter period. It may only be 30% more in material cost, but if you're going to go from a five to a 10 year sealant, you're not paying that labor.
Speaker 1:You're not paying those guys to get up on the roof and drop down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's where your cost is yeah, the cost is always the labor.
Speaker 2:It's the labor. So you know those are. Some of the things that buyers are concerned about is water infiltration.
Speaker 1:So when you go into an older home, what's the, what are some of the kind of things that you're that that you go in with? Okay, these are. You know, this home is a beautiful 1880s Lincoln park house or Logan square. You know, these are the three things that I'm going to really take a look at to make sure that everything is copacetically Okay. Okay, like, do you have, like like people say points? Do you have mental points when you walk into an older house and say this is what I'm going to really look for?
Speaker 2:Well, you kind of hit on a point on any house, in the sense that a good inspector is going to read the house before he even walks into the house. So as he's walking up to the house he should be looking at the house and kind of getting a good assessment as to where things are even located inside the home. So if you see a plumbing stack on the roof there, you know that your building and your wet walls are going to be on this side here. You know you should be looking at to see what is the condition of the south side of the roof versus. You know, when you do do a more thorough thing, you know just generally, look at, you know the tuck pointing, you know the siding meaning, you know is it tight? Because you're going to expect to see water infiltration if there's, you know, failing mortar and things of that nature.
Speaker 2:So but the beauty about Chicago and this is where I always I always chuckle a little bit, and this is where I always chuckle a little bit is that I have inspected homes that were built in 1873 in the city of Chicago. I've inspected homes that were a little bit before that, back out in the suburbs, out in Wheaton and LaGrange and stuff like that. But I get to see homes from the late 1800s all the way to today and get to see that. So out of 7000 inspections that I've done, I've seen a lot of different variations.
Speaker 1:That leads me to what are the best decades.
Speaker 2:Well, you know overall the best decades. Well, you know. Again, it goes down to what do you expect? You know so. And what type of structure is it? As you were saying, a masonry foundation is far better than, and a block graystone is much better than, a framed home from the same period of time.
Speaker 1:They just don't make them like they used to anymore to anymore.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, and it's the labor. Well, it's the labor, it's also there's. There's a lot of things to it that could be either good or bad, you know. You know they don't make them like that because they don't make them like that because there's a reason why they don't make them like that anymore.
Speaker 2:And but you know, some of the things, such as when we look at an old 1800, late 1800, early 1900 home structure is always going to be the biggest thing. Yeah, because, remember, they didn't have concrete, so it's always going to be a brick foundation. It's going to be a brick foundation, it's going to be, um, maybe a concrete block or you know, a bigger block or masonry kind. It could be a stone foundation. Yeah, you know. So we see that, either stone or brick and depending upon how well they've they've maintained what do you?
Speaker 1:prefer if, like all things, all things consistent, they're both in great shape. What is? It is a huge limestone block foundation better than pure masonry well, I, I would, I would prefer a stone foundation yeah, okay, yeah, yeah not that they're bad, but there's just more joints.
Speaker 2:And you know because a stone block is going to be this big?
Speaker 2:so it's, it's the joints, it's the joints, the possible water infiltration, yeah, and a stone is going to. You got to remember what brick is. Brick is just clay that has been smashed together, you know, molded, and then hard fired, yeah, and fired, yeah, right, and it's, and it's still going to, uh, have moisture coming in. But as you bring moisture through that brick, it's still going to have moisture coming in. But as you bring moisture through that brick, it's going to deteriorate over time, whereas a piece of stone that was put together and properly joined, it is going to be great. I mean, look at New England. I mean, look at New England, yeah, they've got a ton of old stone foundations from the 1700s, the 1800s, that are still fine. Yeah, they do need to be maintained. It's so crazy how they built that stuff.
Speaker 1:I know I know we're doing a gut right now at McLean and it's massive stones and we're doing this series on YouTube and we're starting from the minute we bought the house until the day we sell it and it's every week we go and we break down a little part of what they're doing.
Speaker 1:Oh sure, and they just did the. They just dug out the foundation and Erica, um, the marketing assistant, he, she had never seen. We went there. Go look at that. And she goes this is massive, like you know, and I'm like, yeah, I'm like I had a hammer. I look at that and she goes this is massive, like you know, and I'm like, yeah, I'm like I had a hammer. I'm just hammering these stones.
Speaker 2:I'm like this is how they made homes Right, yeah, no, and you know, and some of the old big Victorians, you know that were massive, they had to carry the weight and so you know they couldn't just do.
Speaker 2:You know the brick wall is goings okay, you know, early 1900s there's also, you know, things were things changed, um, from going from wood beam structure, post and post and beam to steal, you know, and that'll be around that well, it'd be closer to the 1920s. But the really like, down in Hyde Park there's some homes that where they were part of the affluent, they were getting the newest and the latest and the greatest, and so they were getting steel, which at the time you know, and they were getting away from knob and tube. You also have to remember that in that period of time they were moving from gas lighting to electric lighting, and so in an old home we may still see some knob and tube wiring that may be in place. So those are things that you're also looking for, to see if it's still active or not and needs to be ripped out, yeah, pulled out.
Speaker 2:The other thing, too that I expect to see in a much older home is structural, depending upon if it's a crawl space or if it's a full basement or at least a walkable basement or, you know, crouchable basement um you know you and I have done homes from the late 1800s where you know I've crawled down into you, know the depths of it and seen just complete rot of the beams because they'd had water issues down underneath there and a lot of times they wouldn't uh, they wouldn't put a vapor barrier down there.
Speaker 2:So you're getting and you know, with chicago having a very sandy soil, you would get the moisture just coming up underneath there and just over time, over 100 years, you're going to rot the wood or termites or things of that nature, and so you'll see failing joists and failing beams and posts and stuff like that One of the things that's always fun to always see when we talk about. And I've talked to people that are buying an older home and usually they're a little bit more skilled and this isn't their first home. Yeah, because they know maintenance and they're willing to take the challenge because, just like our, you know if we had a 1950s car you have to maintain it a heck of a lot more than you know a Kia like you said where you just go and turn it on, or a Ferrari, and so you know we talk about.
Speaker 2:You know, today we talk about wanting to be locally sourced and locally green and things of that nature, whereas you know, back in the day, back in the 1800s and early 1800s, they were really green because they used the local, they didn't necessarily have a lump, they didn't have a Home Depot sitting around the corner, go get me a box of nails, go get me some two by 12s. The wood back then was actually old growth wood, meaning that they didn't try to, you know, manufacture the wood really quickly by growing trees really fast, genetically, you know, changing them, and so it was just nature and so they were really dense, heavy wood and they were also when a two by four was. When you said a two by four, two by four was a two by four. Yeah, it wasn't a one and one and a one and a half by, you know, three and a quarter inch board.
Speaker 1:It's crazy when you go down to some of these basements and like it's basically a tree, you know like those posts are like oh, they just chopped down a tree and took off Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 2:You know, as I was always kid. You know, because sometimes you and I have seen this, where you'll actually still see some of the bark from the yeah, because they they said, hey, you know, hey, joe, you know we got to, we got to build the foundation, we got to build the structure here. You know you got any trees about this big around and you know maybe 40 feet because I need like four, four or five posts. Yeah, so they would actually go to the area, chop a tree down and just just work it. And you know, and it's right, right there inside and it's still there and it's still there and it's still doing the, doing the thing that it's supposed to be doing.
Speaker 1:So it's just, it's just crazy when you go into some of these older homes and what you see and how the construction is held up over 100 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's one of the things that being a home inspector in the city of Chicago is really great If you're doing enough volume or enough over the years, or you've been doing it long enough is that I'm going to get to see homes that were built with the technology that they had at the time and I get to see it, you know, as as the transitions took place and new technologies and everything come into play, of what it is today, versus if you're in a, you know um a schomburg per se, you know one of these suburbs that you know you've got the whole sloth, you know the whole swath yeah track housing track housing, you know no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I'm going to have boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom yeah.
Speaker 1:So when it comes to the water, I know you brought some fun stuff with us Show us like, as you always say, I'm not Superman, I can't see behind the walls, right, but you do have toys that help you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well you know. So, besides just being a home inspector, there's other things that you can do to perfect your craft and to provide more value to a customer or a buyer or a client and I hate using the word customer, because customers are what go through Walmart. Clients are people that you have a relationship with and you work with through whatever course of their period of their life. But as a home inspector, as I said in the beginning, it's a visual inspection and not technically exhaustive. But if I wanted to understand, or have better understanding of what may be an issue, or what I perceive to be an issue, because I've seen clues of something One of the things that I've done is I've become a certified real estate level one real estate thermographer.
Speaker 2:I know that's a mouthful of words, but what it really is is that I've been trained. I know how to use. I had to pass a certification test of how to use an infrared camera, and so when I was at US Inspect, that was one of our trainings and we used it on every single inspection, and I firmly believe that you'll see some inspectors use it, but I use it on every single one of my inspections. And what it is? It's an infrared camera and I actually brought it with me.
Speaker 1:Yes, let's take a look.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We had a potential water issue at an inspection on a sale that I had and you know the guy was like you know there could be water that could not. You know the meters, this, this. And one time I was like like well, don't you have an infrared camera? And they're like no, and then the his client looked at me and looked at him and I was like, oh, I shouldn't have said that, so I don't say it anymore, but like in the back of my head I was like, when they're here, why not use everything that's at your disposal so that you can just cross that off the list or have a bigger like or have more understanding of what the situation is? And actually I love the fact that you can kind of trace things if you need to Like okay, where's the origin of this, what's this, what's that? All right, go on.
Speaker 2:Well, it goes back to what does the inspection company want to do? They only have to meet the state standards.
Speaker 1:They have to meet code. Yeah, they only have to meet the state standards. You know you have to meet code.
Speaker 2:Yeah they only have to meet the state standards, exactly right, um and uh, and just tell you that there's an issue and that you need to have professional evaluation. Um, and so what this is is this is a infrared camera. It's FLIR, which is forward looking infrared that's what the acronym stands for, um, and FLIR is one of the premier companies out there that produces this. And what this does is just tells me what a temperature of any kind of surface may be within, and how. I have this set is within six tenths of a degree, and the reason that we use temperature to find moisture has to do with some basic physics and thermodynamics.
Speaker 2:There were some really old, smart dead guys and you've heard me say this, I've heard this, you can say it again yeah, really old, smart dead guys that figured out that heat is always wanting to give itself up from thermodynamics, it always wants to go to a cooler space and it always moves in three ways. In three ways only, um. One of the ways is radiation. We've all experienced that when, on a 65 degree day, same temperature, we'll be in the shade, we're chilly, we step in the sun, we'll be nice and warm. That's radiation. Second way is convection, which is, I think just a fancy latin term for airflow. Um so we know it. We get southerly breezes, we get nice warm days in Chicago, or we air fry with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cooking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that moves heat around in a faster way. And the third and final way is conduction. In the way that I'm concerned about, conduction is just something touching something else in a very basic manner, where it changes its thermal properties, and so we use this camera here to see if there's any changes on a material like drywall, and if there are, then we use our protimeter or moisture meter to identify if it is actually wet or not, and so this just tells me the temperature difference. And if there's something that's an anomaly that gives me pause or concern, then I will use the moisture meter. And we can use this primarily. We primarily use it for moisture.
Speaker 2:And I have seen in new construction where the builder was there and arguing with me and saying that there is no moisture there and I said, well, here, let me show you. And I had to go through this whole explanation and I said, and it's probably coming, what's right above us? So you know he goes. Well, how can you tell you know? I said, well, you know it looks fine because it was freshly painted. And so I used this and it showed me a big blob, uh, of, of, of cool, of a lower temperature, a much bigger difference than eight degrees so you're looking for just for the people that don't understand this you're looking for something like a miscoloration.
Speaker 1:It's usually blue, yeah, usually blue, and is it? Is it you want a nebo, right? You want like, kind of like, uh, or is it want to be like?
Speaker 2:well it. It can be blue, but if it's dimensional then it's mostly just missing. Insulation, insulation, yeah, okay, gotcha, yeah, the insulation to get tucked up tight.
Speaker 1:But if it's so this will also see if someone doesn't insulate properly, because airflow is coming in, you can tell temperature. So there's a-.
Speaker 2:Many different ways in which we use this, but, you know, primarily for moisture because, again, water is always the biggest enemy, and so we will see, basically, a big blob or, like you said, an amoeba. And so I pointed out to him and he says I said it's the bathroom right above us, and he goes. Well, I told the and I said and you also have a leak underneath the sink in the, in the guest bathroom there, in the right sink. My plumber told me that he fixed that and I said sounds like you need a new plumber, you know.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so we and you find out if people put the heated floors close to the toilets. Yes, I do. Yeah, I know you were on the listing side, yeah.
Speaker 2:But we can also use this to see if there's insulation that's missing, where a lot of, or maybe they drywalled over an old window in an old 1890 home that they didn't need the window in that particular location and so we can actually see the window framed out through here. Or, like you said, in radiant flooring. Yeah, I think it's great for radiant flooring. It is great for radiant flooring to see whether or not the system is actually working.
Speaker 1:If the coils are going Right, exactly. It's crazy, like on the radiant flooring, like when you put it down, you can just see the coils. Yeah, and they're red, not blue, because they're hot, right, right, because they're hot, yeah yeah, so you know there's different ways.
Speaker 2:Or you know, I did something. This young gal was renting this home that she had the opportunity to buy and so she said I want to do an inspection because I'm just renting. And so I did the inspection and for the most part it was good. There were a number of issues, and that was just from lack of maintenance, but one of the things that I caught I walk into the second bedroom, which is being used as an office, and I'm going like man, it just seems a little cold in here and I'm looking for the heating source. In order for it to be a bedroom, there has to be a heating source and you, you know, heating sources should be in building standard, should be by a curtain wall, meaning, you know, by a window to create a heating curtain so that you don't have heating loss through there.
Speaker 1:So that's why the registers are always by the windows, so that when the cold air comes in, you're combating it.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, basically you're, you're combating it. Yeah well, basically you're, you're preventing the because, remember, heat always wants to give itself up and go towards cold. So you're creating a curtain there like, much like when we go into the grocery store, okay, like a barrier, okay, yeah, yeah, all those plastic things when you go in yeah, and you, you feel that big draft there they're trying to keep the heat in there.
Speaker 1:You know that's I got you so so same kind of concept barrier.
Speaker 2:I always thought, okay cool, yeah that's cool, yeah, that's something.
Speaker 1:I learned.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so I'm looking at the ceiling there and I go yeah, the drywall guy didn't cut out where the register was. So for three years, whenever she turned the heat on, she was pumping heat into the cavity between the top floor unit and there and no heat and it heated floors upstairs.
Speaker 2:They did, they did, they didn't even know it, yeah, um, and so you could probably just see yeah. So I saw the red and I said, yeah, they, I, they didn't, they didn't cut out the, the hole for the, for the vent there. So you know the, the heating person put in the duct, the drywall guy. When I said, ah, it's four, 30 on Friday, I need to go and go.
Speaker 2:And then I'll get that on on on Monday. And then, didn't you know, and they never caught it, and whoever bought it didn't probably get an inspected or the inspector didn't look for that and look for a register with a thermal imaging. So you know, having tools and skills beyond what the basic minimum? What about?
Speaker 1:these people that come in with their, their phones and they have like a download, a program. I mean, how can that? How can a phone be so?
Speaker 2:yeah, there's, you know, technology. There's all types of technology and I don't want that.
Speaker 1:I want this Well.
Speaker 2:I want this too and I use it for a number of reasons. Number one it provides the best service for my, for my clients, you know, and understanding, helping them understand about structure and and and water infiltration and things of that nature. It also helps me on a risk risk preventative. The worst thing an inspector can ever get is a phone call saying, hey, you inspected my house, you know 30 days after and go and there was something leaking coming in from there, you know, from a bathroom. I got this dripping come from my ceiling. That's always the worst, you know, getting a call from a client.
Speaker 2:And so I have opted to use a much finer resolution of camera and, like I said, this is set to six tenths of a degree. As far as the differences of seeing, you know, differences in material, seeing differences in material, whereas they do make a more affordable camera-held unit that is not as finite as far as being able to see differences in temperature, it can be used if you're skilled. There's a number of issues that take place is that, like I said, I was certified as a level, you know, level one, excuse me, level three thermographer. Most people don't don't take the training or get certified, they just buy the phone, they just buy it and they read something real quick and they they just shoot it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause I've seen you say well, I know that that's that and that's that right. Cause you have enough experience where like yeah this wouldn't be doing this. It would be doing this.
Speaker 2:It would be doing this able to pick up a leak or pick up the radiant floor, because it's it's to to make it really kind of easy or more easier to understand. It's kind of like when we were used to watch television, you know, and it was the old tube type television, versus what the oled type television is. That's what this is now this, even though the phone camera one is about four400. This one's $2,000. And my protimeter there is a $600 tool right there this pales in comparison to what municipalities will use, such as industrial and firefighters.
Speaker 2:The ones that firefighters are using are like $50,000. And the reason why is they even have such an even more finite level of detection is because they're trying to find little embers at a fire to make sure that everything is out so that they don't get a flare up, you know. Or if there's a, you know electricians are trying to see if there's too much heat generated in a wall or something like that, or particularly like for big, you know, is a breaker, you know doing what it's supposed to be doing and not overheating an electrical panel. So while this is great, you know this would be fail in comparison to what they would need for their-.
Speaker 1:For life-saving.
Speaker 2:Yeah for life-saving right. You know I'm not saying I hope so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, me too, yeah. So, but I, you know I invest in myself, in providing the best experience and the best for the buyer, for my client, and also try to do the very best job that I can given the limitations that I'm strapped with.
Speaker 1:You know, being in a home, what do you think when people, if someone, because everyone has this right, everyone reaches out and says, hey, I'm buying a new construction house. You know what are the couple things? Obviously, nothing's going to change. You're going to rip things apart for no matter what type of house it is. But what are some of the things that you see on new construction?
Speaker 1:We talked about people not getting the permit and not getting it signed. I mean, for an agent that doesn't ask for the permit on new construction, you're not doing your due diligence, you're not doing your job. I don't think you don't leave that for the, you know, for the lawyer, where's the permit, where's the sign offs in the back? Every agent should know each sign off. Every agent should know all the permitting, all the codes, like, all right, there's a rough, there's sewer, there's, because they keep adding oh, yeah, they do. Yeah, everyone should know that stuff. And when it's, when it doesn't pass, not inspected, okay, where's? Where did he come back? What did he line? You know they write what didn't pass. What are a couple of things that you look out for when you walk into a new belt.
Speaker 2:Well, you know the question that a lot of people will even, will even, and I just had this occur. I said I don't need to. I don't need to, you know, because the, the builders said that you know past all the city codes, you know, so I don't need to have an inspection. I said, well, that's, that may be true and you don't have to have an inspection. There's nothing that says you have to have a home inspection.
Speaker 1:I mean Mayor Johnson runs the city. They met him. You're going to lean on the city.
Speaker 2:Well, you've got to remember these things have been in place before Mayor Johnson took place, so you know he has his challenges as well, his challenges as well. But I explained to him what an inspection is and that this is your one chance to get it right or as close to perfect as possible, with someone that is skilled in how construction should be done.
Speaker 1:And you're going to take not to bodge in, but you're going to take not to bodge in, but you're going to take probably 4x time than any. Inspector who goes in there and is handed a cup of coffee by the developer knows them from five other different projects Because I've been there. When they're like oh, you built this one, I remember you, I don't need like I've literally been there. Okay, like oh, just give me the permit and signs and leaves. Really, oh, yeah, oh that's disappointing.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's highly.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry that you had to go through the experience, but you know what I'm there, I'm just like I've seen it yeah, I mean the envelopes of money are gone, yeah, yeah, because the I think the feds had that big, that big thing like four or five years ago, six, six years ago, where they all the money was changing places for the codes. But you have to have somebody. The city's not on your behalf. You are right.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah. And so here's where the inspector really helps that buyer, because, you know, every developer or every builder is going to provide you with a 11 month or one year guarantee. Okay, that's great. With a 11 month or one year guarantee, okay, that's great. You would hope that something that went wrong showed itself up at that time.
Speaker 2:However, if if you're a doctor, or if you're a lawyer, or if you're an accountant or you're some other trade, do you know about building? You know, I mean, I would never try to tell an accountant that I don't need your services. I'll just figure out. You know, it's just math. How hard could that be, you know?
Speaker 2:And so, as I say, this won't be the only home you ever own and at some point you're going to have to sell, or you're going to want to sell. You may not have to sell, and you know that a new buyer is going to bring in an inspector and if there's something that isn't right that he catches, wouldn't you rather have it caught now, so that you don't have to, because it's now going to come out on your dime? Oh, I didn't think about that. So when I do a new home inspection, I'm not, I'm actually, you know, remember it's supposed to be brand new and as close as perfect as possible. You know, with an existing home you're going to expect to see some sagging, some. You know a little bit of things that take place, but in a new home it should be perfect, perfect like right off the showroom floor, and so there will be some things that I will find like radiant floor heating that's not working and in your particular instance, you know when you were on the listing side, not to the right place, right?
Speaker 2:yeah you know, and you know getting something that was told differently um and it got resolved.
Speaker 1:How many times you see the wrong? Uh, you know the electric wire being the wrong gauge for the. I'm having a senior moment. Air conditioning yeah, the air conditioning is in the wrong power this that, yeah, there's.
Speaker 2:There's a number of times where they won't match the right breaker the breaker yeah, because they don't have it in the, they don't have it like everyone's like.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, he was here, it wasn't in the car, so you just threw that one in.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, exactly. Or you know the HVAC guy. A lot of times they won't put the, you know the wire, the, the electrical panel for the air conditioning, which has its own separate breaker. But they haven't installed the air conditioning unit yet because either it was too cold or it wasn't part of the build out phase. And because either it was too cold or it wasn't part of the build-out phase. And so they'll put in a 40-amp breaker where the data plate on the air conditioning says that the maximum fuse or maximum breaker is a 30-amp, so that could prevent the unit from actually tripping if something happened.
Speaker 1:And so you know I always tell that to people Like, everyone's like listen, and it's not the developer, because I'm in, I do a lot of new development. It's not that really the developer. But you know, the developer isn't putting in the ac, the developer is not putting in all that stuff, it's workers, it's the subs. Yeah, and sometimes the subs will be like, oh, he won't know if I do x, y and z, like you. There's so times like let's just take that bathroom right.
Speaker 1:Sure, that sub told my developer, first it was done. Second it was done to the right way. You can't go to the toilet. And then we're like well then, why is the other toilet done that way? Why are the other three bathrooms done? And I told him I'm'm like you've got to get rid of these subs that are lying to you. Yeah, I say because it's not their reputation, it's yours. You're the ones that the face of it. Yeah, I mean it may sound psychotic, but I think a home inspection is is actually a little bit more critical for new than it is for existing. I mean they're both critical, yeah, but like, at least somebody's lived in the house where you're like okay, this person's really people do not going to live in a danger situation where you've got 15 different parties building a house that are all listen that that developer may go there once a day yeah may go there once every four days when that ac is put in.
Speaker 1:They're not testing the ac. They're not saying, oh, did you do this right, did you? Yeah, they're. They're counting on these people and a lot of developers in new construction have contractors that walk out on them or they, they're man, there's no labor, right, like during, during covid. Oh, they're like the. The type of building that was being done in covid was so terrible that I saw, because it was, there was no laborers and it was mom and pop being electricians, and I mean mom and pop, but some guy that was a framer it says, oh, I can wire stuff, right, right, I mean the stuff that I was seeing, and if you don't have somebody like yourself to go through it, it it's insane.
Speaker 1:What do you think about? We're kind of running out of time. I want to ask you one last question, cause I'm thinking of things that people always ask me. What do you think about? I know what a lawyer would say, but what do you think about pre-sale inspections on people's houses that are going to sell? Lawyers hate it, sure, because once you know a defect, you, you, you have to fix it or you have to like. I always tell the people. I'm like, yeah, it's great, so you have no issues. I said, but if you find something and it's documented, you have to either adjust the disclosures or you have to fix it.
Speaker 1:I think it really has to do with the integrity of the person that's trying to sell you know, and that's a great point, because Cause someone could be like what can I get away with, or what do I need to fix?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So, um, maybe I do 1% of all my inspections. So it's not a no, no, you would think that it would be something. But, um, again, like I said in the beginning, there's all different levels of inspectors and you know it's still buyer beware. You know in a sense, but you know, and a lot of times price will dictate.
Speaker 2:You know, I've had this conversation with people that don't understand what an inspection is and the different levels of inspection, and they will only use price because they think that every inspection is the same. So, for example, in the state of Illinois it requires that that, for a simple example, if there's three windows there, an inspector does not have to open every single window. He only has to do a sampling of windows. So out of three, he only really has to do one. Now the inspector will probably pick the good one, you know, and the other two will be maybe rotted or have a problem, you know, maybe not closing right or something like that. They only have to check a few outlets, they don't have to check. You know. They don't have to open every door, they don't have to do. You know, it's a sampling or a representative number within that room, and so, yes, not every inspection is the same.
Speaker 2:No, they're not, I can. Yeah, it's really about us educating the client, whether that's on the selling side or the buying side. On the selling side, yes, you let them know that. You know, I understand that you want to have things addressed and I think that's great. It helps them. Also, besides your point of understanding that if I do find something, then they do have to disclose it.
Speaker 2:Let's say, a less trained, less experienced inspector coming in and calling things out that are minutiae or just wrong. They have something instead of just believing them. They have someone on their side. The seller has someone on their side, so they can say the seller has someone on their side. So they can say well, you know, my inspector said that X X X and has proof of X X X, and it's only been a week since he did that and you did this. So no, you know they. They can then call me and say this is what my guy found out. Is that right? I can either say yes, no, whatever it may be. 99% of the time it's no's not right. Yeah, yeah, and it's not that I'm being stubborn, it's just that you have more experience.
Speaker 1:I have more experience and I know what's going on yeah, so well, we got to wrap it up a little bit. All right, I want to do this again for sure next year. Absolutely, I would love. Thank you. So how do people get a hold of you?
Speaker 2:So it's really simple. You can do it in a number of ways.
Speaker 1:Fire it off, fire all numbers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, so you can email me. You can go to my website, which is premierhomeinspectionschicagocom. You can email me through there. Um, my email address is Jeff at premier home inspection chicagocom. You can call me on the number that's there. That's my cell phone. It goes directly.
Speaker 1:Leave a voicemail, um, you can text youngsters, yeah, youngsters, yeah, yeah, youngsters, voicemail yeah.
Speaker 2:And what's really critical is let me know the property address and also maybe the unit number, so that I can at least know where it is. Yeah, I've gotten that where it's, you know. Hey, I've got a 2019 build of a duplex, which you know. When can you do the inspection? Well, where, because I can.
Speaker 1:I can inspect anything in the state of Illinois. I forget my name sometimes and then they'll text me back go, who are you and I'll be like shit, sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so. So, premierhomeinspectionchicagocom, check out my website. It'll go into much more depth about all the services that I offer, such as thermal imaging, sewer scope, radon testing, as well as the story of my inspection career and all the services that we offer. So I would welcome the opportunity to help you with your home inspection and having a better understanding of the condition of your house so you know how to best move forward.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, jeff's the best in the business. I think a difference is the educational part too. Like, my clients enjoy the fact that while they're with you, there's an education that they're getting to, and I think that's really important, that it's not just, you know, it's not just like this, this, this, it's like okay, well, this is why this is this, this is this, this is that. I think that's a really. I think that's what. I think that's what differentiates, like I've probably met a thousand home inspectors throughout the years. I think that's what. I think that's what differentiates, like I've probably met a thousand home inspectors throughout the years.
Speaker 1:I think that's what differentiates you from a lot of the other ones is the education part behind it. I mean, obviously, the knowledge is just goes without saying, but the education part and I think that's something that is is missing and something that is extreme add on, add value to what you bring to the inspection. I know your schedule is booked in terms of how busy you are, but I could also stress to people that are in, that are in my business I think the best thing you could ever do and I did it was when you have someone that buys something and there's a home inspection. If you're not, if you're a new agent and you're not trailing that home inspector and listening to everything he says, you're doing such yourself a disservice. I know, like the first five years I literally I still do it now. But like I was religious in terms of just being behind a home inspector, whoever's, even when I was on the sell side, I just wanted to absorb as much information that you guys had because it's just like you said, it's reputation, it's repetitions.
Speaker 1:And then seeing the same thing. Seeing the same thing. Seeing the same thing. Thanks so much. Hope you guys had a great 2024. We'll see you in 25 with the 24 wrap up. Don't forget to follow us Apple podcasts, spotify and YouTube, and we'll we'll see you later. Bye, Thanks.